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Episode 195: Have the Courage to Dream with Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones (Part 1)


Having the courage to dream is an essential factor in a businessman’s success. Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones, a self-confessed classic right-brainer, once dreamt and he fulfilled it through his laser-focused dedication to his craft and his passion. Fueled by his family’s financial problems, he relentlessly worked his way into television relentlessly to achieve his dream of owning a farm. Presently, he is a marketeer and a farmer. In this episode, Adam Stott is joined by Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones and they talk about marketing and his journey into achieving his dream of owning his farm.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones, aka The Black Farmer, made a brand of the same name dedicated to his love for farming, specifically British Farming. Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones is a former producer and director in the BBC and he is responsible for starting the career of Gordon Ramsay in television.

Show Highlights:

  • How Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones’ family ended up living so poorly in Birmingham, UK
  • At 11 years old, what promise did Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones told himself
  • Having the courage to dream
  • Why being an entrepreneur involves challenging conventions
  • What his family told him for his idea of getting into working behind the television
  • The 2 things you need to achieve all your goals in life
  • Left Brain vs Right Brain
  • Great opportunities come when there is uncertainty

Links Mentioned:

Big Business Events Members Network
The Black Farmer

Transcript:

Please note this is a verbatim transcription from the original audio and therefore may include some minor grammatical errors.

Adam Stott: 

Hello everybody and welcome to tonight’s podcast for business growth secrets. I’m here tonight with a MBA Wilfred Emanuel Jones who’s done to pass great accomplishments over his career, and we’re gonna have a brilliant interview. I’m going to bring him in in just a moment. Before I do that, make sure that you share this video as it comes up or put comment in and say hello. It’d be good to hear from everyone, I think you’re going to get the opportunity to hear from somebody tonight that really understands branding a high level has had some massive exposure in the media and also got himself an MBA, so it’s going to be a brilliant really credible guest, so hopefully you’re all excited. So without further ado, let’s welcome in Wilfred, how you doing buddy? You good?

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 

How are you? Well you make me feel a lot better.

Adam Stott: 
Well looking forward to a really good chat, 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 

I’m looking forward too it as well.


Adam Stott: 
00:47 so obviously I’ll give you a little intro there and, you know, read lots of bounce some of the things that you’ve done and, you know, it’s pretty impressive and of course that you pioneered equality, you got yourself an MBA, done some amazing things. And for me, from a business perspective, the reason that I do these podcasts and the reason I bring guests on is, for me, when you learn from somebody else who has been on a journey that’s been on a path and you can see some of the things that they’ve been successful in, and you share that with other people that are on their journey can make a big difference to them, I’m sure those that are watching would agree tonight. 


So what I’ve seen from looking on the outside is that you seem to have a real handle on your branding, you know, and I think that tonight’s discussion I wanted to ask your questions about that. But before I jump into that and delivers the real content gems to those of you watching, if you want some content gems pop in the comments and tell us, and, you know, especially if around branding and I’d like to just maybe hear from you. So tell us a little bit about your journey Wilfred, and a little bit about your background and tell us how you got to where you are today. And we’ll go from there I suppose to know.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Well, thank you very much Adam and I must say, what you do is a wonderful thing for anybody who is starting up in its business. What you need is encouragement, you need inspiration and these sort of conversations really help people on their journey, and my story really begins right back to, I’m one of the wind rush generations. In fact, I came over to this country in the 1950s, you all know the history that people like my friends came over here. And in my case they struggled in Birmingham, and we were brought up in a place called Small Heath in Birmingham. And now, don’t need you don’t need listeners for Small Heath in Birmingham, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s a shithole. 02:32

Adam Stott: 
First person to jump on tonight, he’s from Birmingham. 02:41 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
I still carry these scars of 02:45 living in Birmingham. 


Adam Stott: 
02:47 tell us where you from. 02:49 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
And the one thing you learn, 02:51 from them and get you get rid of that bloody accident as fast as possible because otherwise they tend to do 02:56. For anybody from Birmingham, apologies that I’m going to offend you. But yeah, I have absolutely no fond memories of all at about the place. This chap or lady is from Birmingham don’t know what I mean when I talk about small, it’s a shithole. 

I’m from a family of eleven. And eleven of us actually lived in one of those classic two down chose houses and we were very poor. I can remember that my mother had to try and feed 11 of us with one chicken and it’s not like the chickens, you know, get to the supermarket’s, these were sort of the old hens that you had to sort of boil for days to try and get it tenderize. And even to this day, I have a real fetish for chicken bones because I was so hungry chewing away at getting every bit of nutrition from this bloody bone. 

Now, because we were so poor. My father had an allotment and it was my job as the oldest boy to look after this allotment, and this allotment really became my oasis from this shithole of where I was actually living. And this is a really critical important part of my story. I can remember that as 11 years old, I made myself a promise that one day I would own my own farm. I didn’t know how I was going to do it, but it was a dream that I launched into the back of my mind and everything. Everything that I subsequently did was to try and buy a farm. 


Now, the reason why that part of my story is important is this, one of the bloody difficult things about being English is that they love to understate everything. The idea that you have a big grand dream, you tend to sort of be ridiculed or tend to be poopooed, the English like to hold things down and like to be reserved and the Americans tend to be the people who will sort of have this idea that you could actually be the president that you could be something better than the circumstances in which you were born into. 


And I fundamentally believe that than anybody that’s listening to this podcast needs to remember this, is that you have to have the courage to dream. If you do not have the courage to dream, how you are going to be able to achieve it because that dream, that focus. I had, then actually then allowed me to achieve by my farm some 30 years later. 


Now, I do not know how long you’ve got for me to wittier on about my story. I will give you some few headlines because having had that dream. I then went to the local second 05:38 then I went to like a secondary school in Birmingham, and this school was as much as a shithole as a place that I was brought up in. The teachers hated being there, the kids hated being there. They didn’t mean to police, they didn’t really educate us, they police us really. They didn’t 05:55 and in truth, a lot of the kids that I went to school, ended it up in prison, you know, ended up on society desperately. And the other thing that made schooling very difficult and challenging for me so I’m dyslexic, dyslexia is only something that people are now starting to acknowledge, and I’ll tell you what’s really interesting is that everybody’s now going around saying that dyslexic because it’s now seen as a sort of badge and token that you have to have.


Adam Stott: 
06:21 I think everyone wants to be it, didn’t they?

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
06:23 Because it is now seen as a sort of a gift, but back in the day, being disliked that you were seen as the cashier, and you know, the fact that you couldn’t actually keep up the rest of your classmates who sort of condemn. So I left school at 16 I could hardly read and write. And there weren’t really many options available to me so the only thing I had to do in terms of getting away from them is that I joined the army. 

Now, there’s one thing you do not do that you got an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit 06:53 army and entrepreneurialism does not mix because the whole thing about being in the military is that you do as you’re told, you follow always. The whole thing about being entrepreneurial is that your challenge conventions, you’re always asking why. 


Anyhow, they spent about a year trying to get into shape, and then they kicked me out to the army so I always say to people, the only qualification I have in life is a dishonorable discharge that I got from the army. So at 18, I’m kicked out of the army. And then, actually, what the hell you’re going to do. And what’s really interesting is that believe it or not, in those days, if you were a failure at everything. The only thing that was available to you was catering, catering is not a glamorous profession. Back in the day that was where all the stupid things. 


Adam Stott: 
We got the haters on tonight.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Now you say you’re a cook you know there’s all these bloody programs on TV with chefs and everything like that. And it’s an honorable program, honorable profession for people to get into. So I went to the local catering college, and luckily, I enjoyed and being a chef and I worked in various restaurants as a chef. 

And it wasn’t glamorous restaurant, fundamentals flipping burgers, and it sound pretty 08:09 and burger joints. Now, this is the importance of having a dream that I’m about to say, is that although as managing to earn a living, flipping burgers, that dream of owning my own farm was a constant nag, a constant reminder, that boy, if you’re gonna buy a farm, you’re never gonna do that so that flipping burgers. 


Now at the time, there used to be a very famous TV program on BBC called 40 minutes. This makes social documentaries, I still love that program. And I can remember saying to all of my family and friends that actually you know what I’m going to go into television as a producer director making documentaries like that. So you can imagine, they were crazy. They thought I was nuts. That this fucking guy’s crazy, you know, he’s got no education, how on earth does he think he could ever get into TV. And now, there are a couple of tips I’m going to.

Adam Stott: 
09:03 let’s kind of examine that what made you make that statement.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Most of my story that you hear, it’s about being bold and being audacious. That is a theme that you will see throughout everything that I’ve done being bold and being audacious. There’s another sort of thing I want your listeners to take on board is this. This is a principle in how I’ve lived my life and it’s absolutely worked for me. And any successful person will have these two elements that will determine their success in life. 09:39 

And it was my father who taught me this. My father said you only ever need two things to achieve anything that you want in life. It doesn’t matter the color of your skin. It doesn’t matter of your gender; it doesn’t matter of your education. It doesn’t matter in your background, any successful person that you will ever meet will have these two things.


Adam Stott: 
10:01 before this is revealed with a bit of a reveal on this. 10:05 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Two things that really important. And I think that everybody needs to really listen to this, because that’s the mantra I’ve always followed. The first thing is that you need to be ruthlessly, ruthlessly focused. And what I mean by being ruthlessly focused is that you’re able to get rid of the white noise of living. So why is your men’s, what was your major about getting pissed and getting on holidays and sort of doing things that are destroying you fundamentally focus that if you watch an athlete, you know, if they’re gonna get up at four o’clock in the morning to train, they get up at four o’clock in the morning to train. It is pissing them with rain, they get off to train. Focus. Focus. Focus. 10:48 

Now, the second thing is far more important than the first thing is that you need to have passion. Now, the reason why passion is important is because it defies reason, it defies logic. It doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t add up. It helps you get over all of the hurdles that life throws in front of you. If you sit down and you think you’ve got to try and work out logically, you got to be rational about it. It will never ever happen. And people say to me, well, what do you mean by passion, I say, everybody has passion. Because, have you ever seen somebody with their love, they do fucking crazy stupid things, 11:29 they do things that don’t make sense, that driven and people could understand, rather than using all that emotion, and for when they’re in love to also use that for something that they care about. And then they’re interested in. That is the magic, nothing else. That is the magic because, you know, you don’t look at it’s not rational It doesn’t make sense you’re just driven, driven. That’s the key. so you need focus, and you need passion. 


Adam Stott: 
11:59 you’ll know this right is most people are either fall into left brain 12:09. Now left brain would be focus and right brain would be passion. And essentially, there are two different things. And a lot of people have focus, but don’t have passion. A lot of people have passion, but they don’t have focus. So what we’re saying is it really is your tip tonight. The two elements for success.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
I love this thing about left brain and right brain You stole my subject, it’s one of the things, absolutely fascinated about because left brain is about, they’re rational, they’re logical, they 12:41 they go by the data, they go by the evidence, everything that they do is all based on what is rational and logical.

Right brain is not creative, they’re emotional. They’re inspirational, they go with their gut, and I believe I’m a classic right brain. We’re right brain and one of the big challenges that you have in life, is that all you’re going to do is go by the evidence. You’re always basically waiting to be given permission. Those people are going to achieve greatness is that they have a dream, they have an idea, and they says we’re gonna go for it, and a simple example of that is this, is that when Kennedy said, you know, we will have a man on the moon, they did know how to do 13:26 that was the evidential data to that it was a dream. It was an idea and that is essentially those people who want to be entrepreneurs is to understand that, and all the bloody left brainers are bankers, accountants, fear mongers, avoid those bastards because they’re the one 13:46 


Adam Stott: 
13:53 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
It is us the right brain does that pay your bloody wages. We’re the ones that had the courage. We are the ones that have the faith to go for something. Left brainers only go by the evidence, go by what makes sense. It’s the dreamers, it’s the creators, that you know, take one of my great heroes and Steve Jobs. Everything about Steve Jobs was about right brain, you know, it wasn’t logically, what’s the right thing to do, you know as well as I do, Adam, you know some of these big fantastic companies that fail because and Kodak, I don’t even know the story about Kodak, but that is one of the classic stories for anybody who wants to learn that lesson in business, they had the whole market, when it was film I don’t know if any of your listeners are old enough to remember these old cameras where you had film, rather than video, and they were the leaders. 


And then also what happened in their own research lab, they discovered the digital cameras and we don’t want to go down that road because actually we’re making so much bloody money with film, why did we want to invest in it. A year later, something like Apple came out with their bloody iPhone, and digital cameras and destroy that business because they didn’t innovate, you know, but also its arrogance to standing still, and thinking that the world is not going to change. And one of the things I want to discuss in this conversation is that, you know, the great opportunities come when there’s uncertainty. 

15:31 And again, one of the things that Steve Jobs always say, stay hungry, never ever think that you’ve achieved, and you can sort of relax and rest because somebody is running and coming up after you so to stay alert to make sure you’re on track. Well, let me just tell this spectacular part of my story because I told you that I had the idea right, you can get anything that you want by being focused and passionate, and I’ve got right I want to get into the BBC, so I wrote to everybody at BBC, nobody answered my letters and tried to ring and then they wouldn’t take my phone calls. 


At the time, in Birmingham, BBC pepper mill that had those sorts of manual gates with it let people in and out of the buildings, and the guards hated coming out of those hearts. So I went to them and said look, I’ll do that for you and I did it for nothing. So they thought well this black guy is gonna do that nothing will let him do it so for months and then letting people in the building, good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon Madam, I am doing that. Right. I then met the cleaners, who are going into cleaning offices, so I said look I actually come in and clean your offices for nothing and again they said yes. 

And then this happened. And this is really another important part of my story. I met a guy and I still remember his name to this day. His name was Jack Gallagher and I really want to get into television and all this sort of stuff. And he’s like, come into my office and he spoke to me for about an hour. And he says, look, you are not the type of person that we employ in television because you don’t have the education. When you’ve got a bit of an attitude problem. And he said, I’ll give you three months contract as a runner and see what happens is that, you know, it’s probably going to be the worst mistake that he’s made in his life wouldn’t do that. 

Now that man, having the courage to give me that break that started up a long career in television. And so one of the things I say to people is find your guardian angel. Find your guardian angel because every single thing that I’ve achieved in my life. Somebody has gone out of their way to give me a break.


Adam Stott: 
17:48 themselves in the position. And as you write down the story. Most people don’t have the balls to go and work within that environment and some gonna do it for free. Most people don’t do that. Right. 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
And most people are not, the thing is what pissed me off, you know, they have an idea that hold 18:05. I believe in the Jared generosity of the human spirit. If you ask people, they will go out of their way to try and help you.

Adam Stott: 

This is why I want to do things like this and why I want to bring inspirational and people that are you know you’re, you are focused you are ruthlessly focused there’s no doubt,

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
18:24 I think I’m special but there isn’t anything that really unique about me. It’s just understanding the basics, simple things is that you have an idea and talk about it, tell people about, tell people about it. It’s all about probability, you know, you cannot get to the stage of courage, unless you’re prepared to make yourself vulnerable and by telling people, you have an idea. Yes, they might laugh at you. Yes, they may say you’re stupid, and most people will, because actually you’re doing something that they wish they had the courage to do, but your first thing is that you have to have the courage to put it out there, because when you put it out there. Your guardian angel will come and find you, really important so that’s a really big tip.

Adam Stott: 
Find your guardian angel. 19:12 article earlier with someone today. And it’s exactly what you’re saying. Great guy. Great guy timid. And if you want to get success you can’t be timid, you know, yourself, you’ve got to have that value and you’ve got to be. You can’t be afraid and I don’t want people to hear that. I’m glad that you have got the 19:33 and the balls to come outside and strike, because a lot of have done that I’m very strong. And that’s how I like to be.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Again, I don’t want to, I don’t want this to be a fashion the English culture. But part of the English culture is to downplay everything. I know, it’s a bit like, I’m a marketer. And the biggest frustration that I have is that people make great products, and they think because they made a great product I’m gonna buy it, and this is no they’re not, you know, you’ve got to go out there and actually get engaged with people in order for them to actually buy what you do. 


And, you know, and the other thing is this if you try and do things the conventional way that always fail because you know, if I put my CV into human resources, I could not get me up to bloody human resources. Because human resources is all about so that pigeonholing people and getting you to fit in a particular sort of stream. And I would never ever everything in my life, human resources are looked at me, or even interviewers are being shut me out. 


So, you know, you’ve got to understand that if you want to break through. You can’t follow the conventional rules, and what’s fascinating as well, is that I get a lot of people who have worked in corporate life, come to me to talk about ideas or business ideas they want to do. And the biggest problem they have is that they’re stuck in the mindset of power corporate society works, and corporate society is all about managing, it’s not about inspiring, it’s all about managing entrepreneurs and it’s all about actually how do you not make a mistake. You know one of the great things I think is really important in life is that the only way you measure whether you are living is by the number of mistakes that you make. If you think that actually you can celebrate the fact that you haven’t made a mistake. Well, you’re still loving it, you’re not living life to a point.

Adam Stott: 
You’re not pushing to the limits. 


Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Failure, says actually, I’m alive I’m moving in so I want to have a celebration of failure, every week that everybody should be doing this way I fucked up. And I’ve learned from it. 21:46 And they’re not learning from me but I’m learning from it because it’s actually making you better and better and better. 


Adam Stott: 

Absolutely. Remember Wilfred Zambia he’s gone out, he’s built his business, he’s built his brand. I love the comment he just made, there’s something you might miss. These are marketing, I always say if you want to grow a business you need to be 22:04 marketer, you need to lead the marketing from the front, you need to be that person who drives it, it seems that we’re in synergy with that thought 100%. We’re definitely going to dive into that we’re going to talk tonight to Wilfred about branding as well and understanding how he’s built his brand. 


So where we’re at, is we’ve gone out, we’ve, we’ve gone and we’ve worked within this TV studio, we’ve got their work for free Wilfred and we’ve just plowed our way through, we’ve asked the question, we found our guardian angel, what happens next in this story.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
So basically, and from that. I then my claim to fame is that back in the day I don’t know your audience is probably far too young. But I used to work in a program called the food and drink program, and in his time it was a real big program, and my claim to fame is that I gave people like Gordon Ramsay his first break in television. I was on James Park things program. A few weeks ago, in fact, and we spent all of the time chatting reminiscing about what I was like as a director because I was at the time, it was my job to bring these guys in, because you know, these ships if you’ve ever been to a kitchen they don’t take any shit from anybody that it’s that hard but. And so these Oxbridge producers were always intimidated by them. But you know, these chefs and there’s other guys that we take care of side sort of problem and and other sort of guy that will oblige really so my boss that knew that accident, Wilfred, you are the person that needs to go and manage and direct. These ships I remember, Gordon Ramsay coming to my flat in London, and me actually prepping him. So what highway needs to perform the next day when we were going to just filming, and you know he cooked me a very nice Sunday lunch in the process. 

Adam Stott: 
23:52 So, Gordon Ramsay, what does like? That sounds pretty cool.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
Well, he’s a totally different animal then to what he is now, it’s seriously it’s like talking to Jesus, but, you know, he was obviously very powerful in the kitchen, but in front of the camera. You know what I’m always interested in is people how they perform in front of the camera because the brilliant thing about the camera is that there is nowhere to hide it picks up everything. Whatever you think you’re hiding about your personality, the cameras.

Adam Stott: 
You know the one thing I would say is anybody want to let your personality come out. 24:30 


Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
I absolutely agree with that. And I think that’s one of the fantastic things and the gift of Corona really is that when you think about your cubbies that were their bloody suits and dress up to go into work and that it was all about a persona. And what I think we’re now going to be doing is living in a time where people can be themselves. 24:52 I love it. For example, when I’m doing Zoom meetings or somebody stopped that little kid on their lap or the cat or the dog is walking around, that to me just feels more real than somebody sitting there in a business suit for like the bloody meeting I had before you had very tall persona present, pissed me off, given all my time, pouring people talking rubbish, ain’t gonna do that again. Anyhow, I don’t want to get back to that. And, you know, you’re dealing with the authentic side of people’s personalities, rather than the persona they think they need to give in order to sort and survive.

Adam Stott: 
Not sure if something actually. I personally wouldn’t have pointed out, so I think it’s a very good insight, you know, but it is true, and you do get to 25:38 and see how they react and see how they relax and everything which is awesome.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones: 
25:44 more human. Advice people don’t put those blurry background things on because that is also a bit of a persona. 


Adam Stott: 
25:53 No fillers Yeah.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
25:55 Oh my God. First of all they have to wear suits or, you know, buy for an expensive thing and in order to hide that persona. Now that these bloody filters that sort of do the job with it. Get rid of filters I want to see you, how you are. I traveled the world, making films about food and drink. I went to nearly every country you could think of, and it’s fantastic. And, again, this is what’s an important part of my story because you think that the guy from society doesn’t win he ends up at the BBC the thing to do is shut the fuck up, you know, thank you, thank you lucky stars be really grateful that you managed to get into a place which is secure, you know, keep your head down and don’t make a fuss.

Now, another tip I would give to any of your listeners is this, the moment you think that you are comfortable, and that you’re safe, and you’re secure. That is your greatest moments of danger. And if you don’t believe that COVID has taught us that that big lesson, that the only thing in life that is certain, is that life is uncertainty. And so therefore, don’t live your life thinking that it’s all mapped out for.


Adam Stott: 
27:10 things outside all for it is the, having been through all of our businesses and since 25, my first business I built a 40 million pound a year business and playing silent all the way and then industry market changes suddenly not playing silent. And if you’ve never had those changes. I think a lot of people especially business owners have never been through a market change or an industry change. And when it happened it shocks them. And they’ve been really difficult to deal with. I think people are getting a bit more used to it now, but I think that challenge will be the making of a lot of people, you know, because it really does test you and it and actually, that’s where you find the innovation, with bleach really isn’t it, you know, that’s a massive thing, yeah.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
But you see what I think is a certain extent, even though I had a shitty childhood, in a sense, it prepared me for things like this because it means that I’m flexible, I could adapt to change. And I think for me it that’s why it’s really difficult for people once they get to that position of comfort that they don’t understand this work it’s not for long. 

I mean if you look at these big giants and around a moment, Apple, Google and all these, you know, these guys are the powerhouses now but doesn’t mean they’re gonna be the powerhouses in another few years’ time. 28:28 I will guarantee you, I’m in my 60s now, but in my lifetime, supermarkets as we know it will not exist because it does not make sense. 


If you just think about the idea you get your car you drive to the supermarket, you can round to take things off the shelf, you put it your basket, take it out of the basket to put it in the cahier and take it and put it in your bag. It doesn’t make sense, it’s too much. So, that will be stripped out. 

And so, if I was a supermarket, boss. I’ll be thinking what the hell should I be doing because this business will not exist because it you know, it just it doesn’t have to exist. So, I’m always, and that’s why for me actually believe it or not. COVID is a really rich time, because it’s destroying chaos. And it’s bringing about change, and that’s where the opportunity is because people are desperate to try, you know, get back to what they call normal they should let the word normal. It’s never ever going to go back to where it was which a good thing. 

The key thing is to try and figure out what is going to be the new thing, it’s I mean any great business is catching design guys you know what is the 29:39, what is the sense where people feeling. That is what I think people should be focusing on. And I think that we’re going to be going into a time where people want to connect more with people, where we want to then have these big hierarchies and these big corporate entities, is that people want to deal with a smaller player so it’s a really great time for starting your own business, you know, and people have learned that all these big corporates, they relied on, 30:12 COVID hit. They were made redundant, they remain furlough, sacrificed and presented to us to work for them, but it can’t lead enough. And I hope that people will take that and then remember Actually, I must do what is personally important to me.

Adam Stott: 
An entrepreneur is in control of their own future isn’t it.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
Exactly. And I just think that, you know, I would encourage anybody. That is where they need to sort of focus on, they’re gonna focus on, what is it that is personally important to me because a lot of the things they talk about now like you know what is it sort of well being and all this shining about you know about getting well-being. I don’t believe in all that nonsense. 30:58 If you’re doing a job, and you’re doing a job that you don’t like.

Adam Stott: 
31:06 even if you, you know, I do understand what you mean. 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
31:11 you may need to have timeout for your well-being. Because you’re constantly happy, you constantly love. You don’t watch a clock, you don’t avoid doing it because you love these things like well-being. When you’re doing a job because actually you’re doing a job that gives you time to enjoy yourself. That needs to be turned on its head. 

If you actually need to do a job so you’re paying the money, so you can have time to have your, your well-being. Get out of that petty job, the job you should be doing and it shouldn’t be a job or the thing you choose to do. You’re doing it because it feeds your spirit, and it’s something feeds your spirit.


Adam Stott: 
In fact, that is a great moment that for a lot of people, a lot of people not in that situation right. And we, we have a wide range of views and, and I think that we have a lot of people that are not in that situation. In your opinion, I mean, as you said you’re in your 60s, so you’ve lived you’ve lived your life and we haven’t even got something that, you know, which we’ll get to 32:11, which will be really interesting. But for a lot of people, what would you say to someone that actually isn’t living their passion, then this kind of just going with the flow. 32:24 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
You have to come to terms with everything that you do. You have made the choice to do that again. And I tell you what, this is how everything, every major decision that everybody makes in their lives will come down to one or two choices. And if you and available to sit down and analyze it, they’ll find that if you can one or two choices, and that you’ll decide to make that choice out of fear, or hope. 

Now both fear, and hope are the constructs, they’re not real. There are pictures that we’ve formed inside our head. And it’s one, and then you’ll find all the evidence that you want to find to justify the decision based on fear and hope. And so that’s the truth, you have to come down to. So we have this big debate at the moment about some people deciding not to take the COVID vaccine. As an example, right. Yeah. And the reason they’re given that they don’t know, they might not be able to have children oh there’s tons of all these conspiracy theories and they may be right, we don’t know the menu right but they have to come to terms with the fact that decision that comes to business decisions based on fear. Yeah, I’ve had my vaccine, and all of those things that they predicted may happen, but my decision has been based on hope. 

So everybody needs to figure out that 33:43 fear or and hope everything always comes to that because what happens is that, that’s the thing you have to. And that comes about when you have a situation of uncertainty, because it’s easy to make that decision when you have the evidence when it’s all day in front of you, but with uncertainty, you’ve got a choice between hope and fear.


Adam Stott: 
And yeah, I think one of the principles always lived off, is that I always believed that no matter what. And this is a deep seated belief that I always believe that the future is better than the past. It doesn’t matter what happens, I look forward. I live in the present, and are very present, and I love what I do every day today. My future is going to be better than my pasts. And a lot of people that have that they focus on our what we did on the good old days, no you create the good old days today. 34:37 

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
Yeah, that’s right when people say well they can’t. That is a choice. It is a truth that choosing to live in fear, rather than. Oh I said to people that oh you got to decide is which fear do you choose, you choose the fear of the past, the fear of now, or the fear of the future, that’s all. It ain’t easy. There’s no magic button and as always bear in juicing and so one of the things, what I’ve been one of the reasons I love talking to people like you. Is that entrepreneurs, freelancers are the people have learned to live with uncertainty.

Adam Stott: 
I thrive on it, you know, the challenge of figuring out what’s the next month, you know, the strategy of living in that, you know, if I knew everything that was going to happen for the next two years I’d be bored since, so you need that.

Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
So my, what I said before is that the thing to learn in life is how to make a friend of uncertainty, rather than the main that uncertainty shows its face that people do they get desperately people, you embrace it, you put your arm around it and you give it a kiss, my lovely friend, you actually the one in charge that you rule it, that actually it doesn’t rule you walk along he says, I don’t know where we’re going, but we will be all right. That’s all you got to say we don’t know where we are right we would deal with these things as they come along. But what most people do in their heads they’re working out all these bloody problems that they created in their head, but what about this, what about that. What about they say that. 36:16 

Adam Stott: 
This isn’t a boring question right. A lot of this may have come naturally to you. Right. A lot of it may have come naturally. But, naturally, and there’s things that have come natural to me. There’s things I’ve had to work on in order to cultivate because understand how you change is hastened certain right. One of the things that you would say which is a better question that doesn’t come naturally that you’ve had to come to 36:38 wherever it is overcoming fear, overcoming rejection, changing the way you think towards hope rather than fear, what are the things that you’ve actually found challenging like you know that you should do this, but you found the challenge to do it. What was that thing?


Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones:
Everything that I am now is what I call a construct. And I knew that in order to achieve the things that I needed to achieve and I had to change. I was saying earlier on that, you know, being rosebud Birmingham. I knew that if I didn’t do something about my accent going around like a Brumby that would sort of be getting in the way. 


So I deliberately change my accent. Every time, if I wanted to get from A to B, and I figured out, this is what you needed to do that I would change. It ain’t gonna come towards you. You have to be able to adjust and sort of change. And so you’ve got to make that sort of commitment that you would need to change and adapt in order to get to where you want to get to. 

And then also, the choice you got to make your life is this, it’s that you have to decide whether you want to be a 37:48 or belong. Most people want to belong and the moments you belong, you have to operate by the rules of that group, or that community. And if you don’t, you’ll be ostracized. Now to be, you have to decide to go out there. 

The simple example I tend to give people is this, let’s say someone’s gay, and they know that their parents were the object that that parents issue with them. Not person will have a choice. They either hide their sexuality or not telling their parents in order to belong. Or they take the risk of telling their parents knowing that they’ve been rejected, and they go on their way. 


Now, part of being an entrepreneur is you’ve got to take that leap as well. Whereas, could you imagine saying to all your friends and your family, you know what I’m going to give up my job. And I’m going to start this business. Most people who live in fear, by the way, I’ve got to try and stop you from doing that, drag you back we’ll try and find 101 reasons why you shouldn’t do. Why you want to stay be like them. And you will have to make that decision of whether you want to belong, or to be. And therefore, you take that you have to take a leap of faith.

Adam Stott: 
It’s a really interesting concept.

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