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Episode 217: Turning Side Hustles into Full-Time Business with Elizabeth Ogabi


If you believe that a side hustle and passion project can branch out on its own as a full-time business, then this episode is for you. Our guest for this episode is a successful entrepreneur in her own right, Elizabeth Ogabi. She’s a podcast host, entrepreneur, author, business owner, and founder of two women-focused businesses: 1) For Working Ladies, a digital platform to support women who want to start their own business, and 2) Leicour, an organisation aimed at helping women progress to leadership positions. She also recently published a book entitled “Side Hustle in Progress”, a simple guide on how to start a business when you don’t have all the time in the world.

Elizabeth worked before in a communications agency where she worked with female founders to employ digital communications to build their business. This became something she is fond of doing which eventually became her hobby and then built a content-based online website around it. Tables turned when she was approached to do some branded content and got paid thousands and saw the website’s impact on other people and businesses. And as the saying goes, the rest becomes history.

Show Highlights:

  • Elizabeth’s driving force to start her own business and learnings along the way
  • Elizabeth’s journey on how she transitioned her passion from side-hustle to full-time business
  • How Elizabeth Ogabi is empowered to get more women to venture into business using her platform and book
  • Elizabeth’s view on content- and community-led platforms
  • Elizabeth’s book writing journey—from setting it aside to actually publishing it in the middle of the pandemic
  • How not thinking about what others think can help you inspire other people
  • The four things you need to succeed in life and business

Links Mentioned:

You can read more about Elizabeth Ogabi’s book entitled “Side Hustle in Progress” here, listen to her podcast ‘How I Made It Happen’ on Apple Podcast or Spotify, and follow For Working Ladies on Instagram here and her socials here.

Her inspirations in entrepreneurship include ‘How I Built This with Guy Raz’ podcast, Angela Duckworth’s book entitled ‘Grit’, and entrepreneur Sharmadean Reid.

Transcript:

Please note this is a verbatim transcription from the original audio and therefore may include some minor grammatical errors.

Adam Stott:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to this very, very special episode of business growth secrets. I’m your host, Adam Stott today and I’m with Elizabeth Ogabi who is going to be sharing some massive business growth secrets in her story. She is a host of podcasts. She’s an author, an entrepreneur, and a business owner, you got an amazing story of everything experience, you’ve got her new book out as well, which we’re going to mention today. Remember, if you haven’t already, make sure that you subscribe to the podcast, wherever your favorite listening platform is. So you can keep up to date with the brilliant sessions that we’re bringing. So thanks very much for joining me today. Elizabeth. How are you doing? You well?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, I’m doing well. I’m trying to enjoy the little sun that London keeps giving us but yeah, other than that, I’m doing perfectly.

Adam Stott:

That was terrible. I took our gold circle clients, which is my mentoring group to Newmarket the weekend and absolutely hammered it down around.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Aces in the rain. But hopefully, and now we’re in August, hopefully, we’re going to see a bit of a change to that. So, really pleased to have you on the really, really interesting story and the things that you’ve accomplished are fabulous, I understand that you also help a lot of women within digital marketing. You’ve got some great experiences in that area as well. I just want to really kick you off, give you the opportunity to introduce yourself, maybe tell the audience a little bit about some of the things that you’ve done, and how you found yourself here. And then we’ll go deeper into your story from that, sound good?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, sure. So my background in communications and so previously, before becoming a full-time entrepreneur, which just happened a couple of months ago, I was working in various places such as Unilever. And Ogilvy, which is an advertising agency, I’ve worked at a few, not for profits, and I’ve been doing communications, and that’s both internal and external.

Alongside doing that, I was also running my own side hustle. And in between those periods, as well, I have also dabbled in and out and run my own businesses as well. But most recently, the side hustle that I was running is a platform called for working ladies, which supports women who want to start a business. And I’ve just gone full time with that in April, as I have started another business that’s focused on women within organizations that want to climb up to leadership roles. So I’ve been building that platform for well, the first platform for work ladies for the past four to five years. And off the back of that, I’ve just published a book called Side Hustle in Progress. And I published that with HarperCollins in June. So it’s still really fresh.

And it’s basically a simple guide on how to start a business when you don’t have all the time in the world. So whether that’s you’re working in a job, or you’ve got another business, or you’ve got some other sort of full-time commitment basically breaks down the different ways that you could start a business.

But the way that I’ve broken it down, which I think is different from other business books is that the first part really talks about the benefits of having the entrepreneur mindset, it talks about mental health. And it also talks about the things you should be considering before actually starting a side hustle. So how much time do you have to give? What do you want in the future? Are you trying to turn this into a six-figure business, you constantly just want it to be a side hustle. So we talk about all the things that people don’t really talk about when you read business books.

I just really go into how to get ideas how to brand the ideas, how to then market them, and the important thing such as the legal and then also if you did want to grow the business, how you could get funding from it. Then the last chapter is really focusing on how to transition out of running this side hustle and making it your full-time business. And I think that’s the bit that a lot of people kind of tripped upon.

In the book, I also do interview other female founders and one of them actually had gone back into her full-time job, I think two or three times. And the last time that it was actually a success was because she pulled out an Excel sheet, she did the numbers. And she said, what do I need to do? How much do I need to earn? What do I need to cut out in order for me to be able to sustain this business? So yeah, that’s what the book is focused on. And again, I kind of wrote the book to get more women into business.

I think that there was research done by NatWest that Alison Rose to entrepreneurship review. And that really looked at female entrepreneurship. And what they found was that there aren’t as many women approaching business and it’s not that they don’t have the ability, but it was really the access to knowledge and also just overcoming the fear, and then also not having the opportunity to access the capital. So I’m really hoping that this book kind of gives them the push and drive that they need to start the business and the tools and resources.

Adam Stott:

4:36 really wanting to have you on the podcast. And I think that when your name got put forward, it’s really great that you’ve been through this process because I’ve got so many clients, a lot of female clients as well that have been through the process of building their businesses. And I’ve seen that people go backwards and forwards and you write once you run the numbers and you understand that hey, you know you can do this full time people very much program not need to stay in their jobs when they don’t necessarily have to enough what was really interesting that you’ve written the book and built that side hustle and really proven the concept and then gone and launched it. So you know, well done to you. It sounds like an amazing,

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Thank you.

Adam Stott:

Really, really educational and definitely something that the people listening on today should pick up. So why don’t we talk a little bit about working your business that you started the actual side hustle, you started, one of the things we get, we get so many clients coming to us that that’s exactly what they want to do.

There is a lot of change going on in the world, where you’re seeing the freelancer market is growing massively traditional working is changing in London, for example, you know, the offices now the corporate offices are becoming empty, more people are realizing that they kind of need to take their future into their own hands, aren’t they? And I think that’s really, really important. So what it says a little bit about your story about why you started your business, the original one, you know, what was your drive behind that? And what did you learn along the way?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

So I assume you’re talking about working ladies, right? Yeah. So that actually started as a side to another business side. So I first started a communications agency, where I was working with female founders, mainly around columns by how to use digital to build your business. And so I had started for Canadians as actually as a passion project. And on that passion project, I was really interviewing women who had started other businesses, women who had climbed into leadership roles and just sharing the content.

So it was kind of like a reefer, I’d say like a refinery 29. It was just content-based. It was an online website, just content-based, we had about 20,000 readers at a point, I had about 20 writers, but I was doing it as a hobby, it wasn’t something that I actually thought, Oh, this could be a business, it was just something I was really passionate about. I knew that it was creating loads of impact, because of the readers that we were getting, and the email subscribers.

Then along the way, we had our first event, and that event actually sold out. And then when I started to see once I was doing some research the way that digital media companies were being built. I was like, Okay, this could actually be a business.

Then a brand had approached me and said that they would like to do some branded content on the website. I just said, Okay, how much are you willing to pay and they said, a couple of thousands. I was just like, oh my god, you’re going to pay thousands to just do some branded content on the website, literally, all I was going to do was interview someone and refer them back to the brand and refer the readers back to the brand.

Then I began to see that, okay, this could be a major company, I started to look deeper into how major companies are built, and they tend to be built around branded content, advertising events. And then in the new world that we’re in, which is digital. There’s also the new concept of monetizing your newsletter and your podcast. So I decided to really ask myself, what do I want this to be? How can it still be impactful and still be monetized so that I can pay myself and if I want to pay freelancers to work with me, it could still run like a business? So that’s really been the journey it started off as a side project.

Then I then decided to turn it into a business, but there was loads of pivoting along the way. And for me, that is a big lesson, because most times people think that you start your business once this is what it’s going to be. And this is how it’s going to end. But there are so many pivots in between. And I think when you have those pivots, people tend to think, okay, that means it’s a failure. And I always use the example of Facebook, Facebook has been so many different things. Instagram has been so many different things, I mentioned those popular ones because people tend to look at them as successful, but they’ve become so many different things.

When you do start a business, you can continue to reinvent it along the way, in order to suit the environment and the changes that have happened. And even with the pandemic happening, we had to cut out a lot of the external events. So I completely cut that out. And I’ve kind of done a slight pivot again, to how we can really focus to just be a purely digital business, as opposed to having to, you know, purely focus with the offline stuff. I think the offline, things like events are still really good. But instead of doing monthly, for me, the most beneficial is doing a big annual event. See, I’m currently even in the phase of reinventing it again and re-launching it, but that’s what the journey has been, so far.

Adam Stott:

So many lessons for the audience as you’re talking. I love that because first of all, you mentioned passion. It’s obviously a lot easier to really see something through and work on it. And especially if you’re going to choose a side hustle.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

I see a lot of people choose hot side hustles but they really don’t have any passion for. It’s going to be an Amazon seller and they’re selling some random thing on Amazon, that.

Adam Stott:

Yeah

Adam Stott:

They’re right. You know, that sort of side hustle is not going to make you want to go to work after you finish work.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Alright. So I think the passion is really, really important. And that was a good lesson. And then exactly what you’re saying, you know, one of the things that I often say to people that at the start of their business is where you start is not where you finish.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Really comfortable with that. So you know, the way you’re going to start off with and where you’re going to start from is not going to be where you it’s not going to be the finish line. So like you said, it’s a work in progress. And I think that should inspire lots of people that are listening that are at that stage of their business, you know? Absolutely. That’s great. That sounds like it’s been an awesome journey.

So how did the book come along? And before I even want to say that the book is the fact, you know, is it good for 10:17 people that are listening, is the fact that you were putting the content out and the content was being well received? Right. And I think that part of that will be down to the fact that you’re very specific on who you wanted to work with

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Your people. And I’ve seen it loads of times recently. So quite a few of my podcast interviews, specifically, Rory Fairbairn, strikes out to me as one Ben Ebrell was another and both of them started businesses. His was called One You Know Beer, because.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Okay

Adam Stott:

He realized that alcohol wasn’t good for him anymore. And he didn’t want to drink anymore. So he started this side hustle community that just span into something massive. And so did Ben Ebrell started sorting food, and now he’s got 2.4 million YouTube subscribers. And they both started in the same way content lead to go out there deliver value to a specific audience, and watch that audience kind of gravitate around you.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Opportunities come and it works very, very well. So I think it’s a really inspiring story for a lot of people are listening to that, you know about that?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. I mean, with these kinds of content, lead platforms or community leaders, it’s definitely about the audience, and really creating content that’s relatable and really valuable for them. And they just end up doing the work for you in terms of sharing it.

Adam Stott:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Which is even more amazing. And so how did the book come about in our lives? What happened with the book? Because you know, you’ve been a great success. And did you enjoy the process? Talk to us a little bit about that.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah. So 2018, I wanted to write a book, I had seen that it would be valuable for the community, it would help in building the brand as well. So I kind of just did like an outline of what the book would include. I reached out to an editor, I didn’t tell her what the book was about, I just said, this is a platform that I’ve built. I’d like to write a book. She said, Oh, I think you should go build your platform, I think you should build it out further, I think it could be stronger.

I kind of got a bit peed off and put it aside and just kind of said, you know what, the next time this book comes up, the publisher will approach me. S,o every year, beginning of the year, you know, I had my goals, and I just said I’m going to write a book. It’s going to be about business, it’s going to be for the community, and don’t know how it’s going to happen.

Just as I had started to write another book, I had actually been co-authoring a book with a friend of mine this mid-2020. And we decided to take the leap, to just focus on writing a book, I then got an email from HarperCollins, saying that they’d like to talk to me about a book project. And when I opened the email, it was the exact same book that I had outlined, that I had outlined in 2018. So it was such a coincidence. And that made the process much quicker in terms of moving forward and signing the contracts. Because we already knew what the outline is going to be like, I already knew what I wanted to be like, and how I was going to market it. I had done the marketing plan in there as well.

So it was quite a quick process in terms of writing it. I think I brought it in about five months, four or five months, I was doing that, you know, during the pandemic, alongside my full-time job. I didn’t want to sugarcoat it, it was really hard. It was extremely difficult. I put the platform on hold for a 13:29. So I wasn’t really doing anything on that side, I purely decided to focus on the book, so that I could put all my time and effort into it. Especially because I was also interviewing people for the book as well. And I was practically working days and evenings. But I don’t regret. I don’t regret it. It’s completely valuable.

Adam Stott:

13:46 you know. It’s like, it’s then reusable for a long time, which is all.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, exactly. But it was extremely hard. And I don’t want to sugarcoat that because I know there are lots of people publishing books at the moment. But yeah, it took a lot of effort. And so I did it in about four or five months. But I think the rollback really comes after you’ve published the book, the marketing of the book.

Adam Stott:

Right, of course. Yeah.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, that’s where the real work really kicks in. So you’ve done the work of actually writing the book, the real work really kicks in, it’s all about selling it really, and kind of sharing the value that’s in the book, and whether that’s on social, whether that’s getting press, whether that’s going on people’s podcasts and talking about it, and that’s where the real work is. But um, yeah, it was a great experience writing the book. I’m hoping that I can also write another one actually. Say. Yeah.

Adam Stott:

14:33 multiple offers are better than an offer, right? Actually what I think. So. That’s, that sounds amazing. So along your way of building this business and helping lots of, you know, working people working moms, and working people to go out there and build their businesses, what would you say some of the advice and some of the tips that you’ve given them, some of the best bits of advice, best tips that you’ve seen, well-received, and you’ve seen these ladies use to go build their businesses, what would you say that sort of struck you?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing that I’ve noticed is that there’s just a lot of fear around. What will people think? What if it doesn’t work out, what if I fail? I always just kind of say, just give it a try. I mean, what’s the worst that could happen? You will constantly have this feeling of regret.

Adam Stott:

Right, is that you said those things, and they’re absolutely, that’s absolutely not wrong. That people’s thoughts about what other people think are just is one of those strong fears. Did you have any fears like that yourself or not? I’m just interested, I don’t know what the answer would be.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

When I started. No, absolutely not. I was purely focused on what I think this could deliver. I remember when I was promoting the content, because when you start a content based website, you’re literally promoting to your family and friends, initially, and then you’re going out into the wild and pushing out the content in different ways and I was absolutely shameless about it, you know, do WhatsApp blasts.

Honestly, it pays off, people look back and say, Liz, I remember the days you share this content via WhatsApp. Now you’ve got a book, I was constantly pushing, I had no care in the world where anyone thought I just thought what I was working on, needed to be out in the wild. And it was really good. And it was really valuable. I think now that I’m out there, and I can see that there are more eyes on me. And I could see competitors. And I can see so many other things. I’m a bit cautious. But nonetheless, I mean, one thing that I’ve learned is that you just continue to take the leap. And sometimes when you think people are saying things about you or watching, they’re really not.

Adam Stott:

Yeah.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

It’s all a mind thing, to be honest. I really encourage people to reframe their thoughts around things like that, because you never know who you’re inspiring, instead of thinking about what people going to say, maybe think I could actually inspire someone else to start something as well. And I know that I’ve inspired several people to take the leap to start their own business, or to start a side hustle. And for me, that’s just so beneficial.

Adam Stott:

Yeah, very rewarding. And also, from what you just said, The reason I asked you the question, is because typically, we do see different types of people, you know, I’ve been trying to train over 15,000 people, and over the 15,000 people that we train, obviously a large percentage of them a bit of startup, so probably sound much like 60%. Well.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

We’ve already been gone. And we do find you get two types of people, you get people that have got a strong entrepreneurial DNA. So this entrepreneurial DNA where they are not afraid that they take actions that they’re persistent, that they don’t mind going out there talking, selling, offering their products and services. And we’ve got people who’ve got more of we call it like an employee DNA, somebody that’s very much in their own box, somebody who’s very introverted, that struggles to get out there that wants to do it, but has lots of fear. And,

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

On a convert that person from being someone with a very employee DNA to more of an entrepreneur with DNA to succeed. And the reason I asked you is that I saw, you know, from some of the things that you said, that you have more of an entrepreneurial DNA running for you. So I didn’t expect you to say you were afraid. But I think really, for someone like you, and for someone like me, that does very similar things, just to a slightly different audience, right, is understanding that, and understanding that people have the fear is absolutely fundamental to inspiring and empowering them to succeed, isn’t it? You know,

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, ust to add, I’m actually an introvert myself, and when I tell people that, they don’t believe me, but the thing is, I take action nonetheless. Fear will always be there, it’s not going to disappear, like the nerves, the fear to do things that will always be there, you’ve just got to say to yourself, I choose to take action. And I choose to take the steps that need to be taken. Because at the end of the day, the only thing you can do is to continue to focus on what your end goal is, challenges will always arise, but you just have to continue to choose to take action.

As I said, I you know, I put I did invest a lot of time in reframing my thoughts around what people could be thinking or what I could achieve. And I think that’s very important as well because we get loads of negative thoughts, and it’s really just sitting down and reframing them. But yeah, I mean, there are loads of people who are introverts and are still out there in the world doing extroverted things. And I definitely think I’m one of them.

So I think even if you do have that employee DNA, you just have to learn to step out of your comfort zone, you have to be ready and willing to step out of your comfort zone. And this isn’t bashing employees, but you can get very comfortable, especially if you’re maybe not in a leadership position. I think if you’re in a leadership position within an organization, you have to step out of your comfort zone to some extent because you’re you know, yeah, you’re leading teams, you’re delivering presentations, you’re working with other senior leaders, but if you’re not, then you’re still in a bit of a safety 19:53 You’ve got to be willing to step out of your comfort zone when you want to start a business or some sort of platform.

Just ready to put yourself out but it wasn’t like that before, though. I was actually sharing this morning that before you could start platforms and kind of have no face behind it. And people just cared about the content. But nowadays everyone’s attached to who’s the person behind it, I want to know more. So you kind of start creating this personality brand that everyone’s interested in as well. So you don’t actually have any room to say, I don’t want to be the face of my brand or, and I don’t think you have to. But I think there are definitely the benefits of being the face or just appearing every now and again.

Adam Stott:

Also, you know, if you’re a product, you can almost get away with it a little bit. Because of your product.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Stott:

But when you’re a service, people need to understand its leadership anyway, isn’t it? And it’s

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

20:42 that leader? And follow? Right. But I think it was a product that is easier not to.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

And I think it’s almost 20:50 now. And its influencer culture, you know? Yes. Like, people buy products now, because they see somebody else say it’s good. I want to buy into your business, if they see you talking with the passion about your business, you know, you are an influencer for your own business. What and like,

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah exactly.

Adam Stott:

21:08 the question. More and for what your business is going to grow. And that’s what you have out there and do obviously so you know, and that’s absolutely spot on. Totally. Yeah. So, you know, obviously, you’ve got your book coming out. Are there any books along the way that inspired you? Sometimes our listeners love to hear about some books that you might have read on your journey, or if you had books, mentors, or coaches, and people that have influenced you in order to go and make things happen?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah, I think a podcast that did inspire me was How I Built this 21:38 and NPR podcast is brilliant. And it really just interviews, mainly startup founders, to how they built their companies. Also, a book that I’ve really enjoyed and I continue to read is a book called Grit, about passion and perseverance. It’s by Angela Duckworth. There’s another book I call God, I’m so bad at remembering names.

Adam Stott:

How I Built this Guy. Is that the one that you’re listening for?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yes, Guy Raz. Yeah, that’s it. I love that podcast. An entrepreneur, who has inspired me is Sharmadean Reid. Yeah, she’s done a lot in terms of flight culture and women in terms of really championing them, giving them the tools and resources for business. And she’s also got a few businesses herself. I think those Yeah, but those are the main resources, I really enjoy Grit, because it talks about the fact that it’s not just about talent, but it’s also about skill in developing skill and passion and perseverance.

And, you know, she’s mentioned quite a few people that had what some people would see as obstacles. Remember, she had mentioned the guy that had Dyslexia, and he was a writer. And so he just, I won’t point for, he couldn’t succeed. But he continues to practice and practice and practice. And he’s gone down in history as one of the best writers, for me, that was inspiring because I’m slightly dyslexic myself. And we can feed ourselves so many reasons why as to why we can’t do something. But what that book showed me was that, with perseverance with passion, and with the ability to develop your skill, you can succeed. So that’s been like a really big book that has inspired me and kind of just kept me going.

Adam Stott:

That’s why I asked the question, really, because I think it’s important for people to understand that, you know, the stories are out there, and nothing is stopping you. I always say to my clients, there are four things really, that you need to succeed one, you need the right information. If you got the right information about how to do what it is that you want to do, you’re going

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yup.

Adam Stott:

To get right, okay, without the right information, you’re going to have the wrong strategy, you’re not going to get the right result, right. And then to explain that the right information is not enough, if you take no action if you do.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Not get anything. So we’ve got to start taking more actions in order to get more done. I then say to them, that you can take as much action as they want. But if the actions don’t quite go quite right, and things don’t go your way, we’re going to need number three, which is perseverance, because sometimes you’re just there, and you don’t get it because you quit too early. And the number.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

Is a bit different. As I say that you need the right environment. And you need to see other people succeeding and doing things that maybe you don’t think are possible.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah.

Adam Stott:

They can’t know if you sit there and think it’s hard to build a six-figure business. But then you sit in a room with 50 people that have built an eight-figure business, all of a sudden you realize it’s not actually that hard.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yup.

Adam Stott:

What information right and you circle back. So I think those four things are what I say to people that really from my learnings, and my lessons have been the things that kind of influenced me in order to go and get better results. Well, is that before we get into the book, we’re finishing up now this but if there’s anything that you’d like to say to the audience, mainly the audience on today, people listening today, and please tell me in the comments, and tell me if you’ve loved hearing from Liz today. Is there any last bits of advice you’d like to give them? Or is there ways that you’d like to be contacted? I know they should all go and buy a copy of the book. So do you want to mention the book one more time for us?

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Yeah. So if you go to sidehustleinprogress.com all the information about the book and how you can buy is on there. And there’s also information about how you can contact me there as well. If you wanted to follow me on social and Elizabeth Ogabi on all platforms, so it’s quite simple. And yeah, that’s mainly it. So the book is out coming out on June 24. And as I said, all the information is on the website.

Adam Stott:

Pretty good job. Well, thank you very much. You’ve been a brilliant guest. I love it.

Elizabeth Ogabi:

Thank you.

Adam Stott:

I love the fact that you’ve seen your side hustle through and not in many side hustles anymore, being your full-time business. And it’s awesome stuff. So brilliant. Thank you very much for coming on. You’ve been a superstar newbie. Listen to a podcast. Make sure you subscribe. Okay, so go and hit that subscribe button right now. So you can hear more episodes like this for business growth seekers. Thanks, everybody. See you soon.

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